Save Our Jobs Update

Perhaps if feckless politicians over numerous administrations could have been responsible stewards, perhaps citizens would have even a glimmer of hope that the current collection could make an intelligent decision, letters or not.

Kieth, it's not that I think you are wrong, it's just that, as a society, we grow it ignore constant pressure. It would seem, in our attention deficit reality, that these "moment of crisis" efforts are the only ones that get the press time.

Again, your feelings and point of view a valid, it's just that if the American people keep hearing how valuable exploration is, when jobs are on the line, they'll be, like, oh, that's old news.

Maybe I'm being cynical.

The sad truth is, NASA isn't about serving a higher purpose for the benefit of all humanity; it's a mechanism for serving various interests. It's really not more complicated than that.

Jobs, pork, prestige, make-work, all that and more.

I know, I know, I'm horribly cynical.

That's right Keith. Many of these groups and politicians are not inspired by the space program, they're only inspired by how bad they will look when the unemployment rate increases in their district, state, etc. Too bad these folks cannot think beyond themselves and do what is best for the country's future. This is a symptom of a much larger problem, IMO.

NASA has and continues to live on forty year old acheivements. Now, with a developing commercial space sector and budget cuts and no real direction - irrelavance has begun to take deep root into the fabric of our national space effort. The lack of a direction and changes every 4-8 years in space policy have left our Nation with a space impotency akin to the mid 1950's. It's not just shameful but irresponsible - and we have multiple administrations and Congress to blame for an inconsistant and non-coherent space policy. The general public has been lead around by its ears all these years with nonsense about Tang and velcro. Let's get real - NASA must make the case to Congress and the sr. leadership at NASA past and present has not been up to the task. Just a shame.

Keith, you are missing the whole point of many of the peoples concern! It's about the loss to the entire country and not just to a few in Florida and Texas. We are about to give up our position of leadership in SPACE to others in the world. The most productive, safe, reliable space transportations are be shutdown in favor of starting over with a lesser capability that is yet to be proven. It is very sad that the leaders in our country that most of us count on to make responsible decissions have let us down because of special interests of a select group in this countery. The news paper may be addressing the local area issue, but many of us in this business for most of our lives realize that its about a much bigger issue __ WORLD LEADERSHIP. The path forward should be progress and moving back 40 years and starting over!

How can NASA make a case for more money. Their choice of Ares 1 was in my opinion rediculus. Even if there was some logical bases for building it, that ended when some many problems manifested themselfs. And yet, they have NOT said, Ares 1 under powered, Ares 1 duplicates existing launchers, Ares 1 vibration and TO problems add to much expense to continue along this line of development. They haven't said "we made a mistake, we should end the program now, before we put any more money into it.

What they have said, is GIVE US MORE MONEY. I am tired of giving money to NASA, to have a jobs program, to put a handful of people in the lime line, to continue paying billions for COST PLUS contracts, that all too often end in failure.

Those of us that are on space based websites like this are supports of space. If NASA can't make a case to many of us, that support space, how are they going to gain the support of the general public.

@R.E.Rhodes and others:

"We are about to give up our position of leadership in SPACE to others in the world."

So what? Did this just happen overnight? Any one here questioned ESAS at any time? Any one questioned using Shuttle for so many years after all the design flaws were identified? Then again, we should keep Shuttle going because it keeps our jobs and Constellation will nicely take over after Shuttle is gone, right? I think that all Keith is saying it's been in the works for many years. Once Apollo was over was when the decline started, compounded by a ridiculously expensive LV/RV that turned the whole program into a jobs program as some say: Proved amny times over and especially recently by the actions of two senators.

"The most productive, safe, reliable space transportations are be shutdown in favor of starting over with a lesser capability that is yet to be proven."

Nonsense. Which lesser capability? Space exploration is NOT only about LV and/or RV. These only are enablers. Shuttle is not enabling any exploration. Now if you are only happy with LEO and ISS then fine but please stop the whining about loss of jobs because to go up and down from ISS you do not need a Shuttle once the ISS is completed. And therefore you will get "lesser" capabilities. Like with any construction projects: First you need big trucks and many workers to move things around but once the construction is over fewer people go there by car. Okay some may go using SUVs but it is another story.

"It is very sad that the leaders in our country that most of us count on to make responsible decissions have let us down because of special interests of a select group in this countery."

So what's new here? How about people get to vote on real issues and not idiotic popular rants as those we all get during elections? How about that? Maybe, just maybe, you'll get the leadership you crave so much.

"__ WORLD LEADERSHIP"

Like the one we recently showed with 2 unjustified and unending wars? I don't remember a lot of people worry about that back then... Leadership cannot be imposed, not even with an ambitious space program. So far the said "world" leadership took a big toll and it is going to take a lot more than the Constellation program to restore it.

"The path forward should be progress and moving back 40 years and starting over!"

The path forward is moving back 40 years???? Interesting concept. And I wondered why we were in this mess...

I completely agree with Keith on this subject. The only reason these folks are crying to "save their jobs" is to save their own collective asses. What is their counter proposal? Keep shuttle flying so little Johnny can get an iPod for Christmas? How many of those effected are true believers of the NASA "mission" anyway - not just "a local" who happens to work at or near a NASA Center? Those who are willing to do everything it takes to keep this country and humanity thinking about space, science and all that involves? By comparison, the Auto CEO's presented their business issues to Congress but even still certain plants had to close. Did those effected plants go and cry to Congress to "save their jobs"? Change is hard for EVERYONE. If you're not prepared (financially or emotionally, etc.) to deal with it whose fault is that?! Don't blame NASA (or GM) for squandering your income all these years.

I am tired of witnessing U.S. policy prop up various industries instead of letting them fail (and allowing something more appropriate to take its place). Forests, for example, will grow and, when necessary, BURN to the ground on their own naturally without human intervention. Why should business/industry be so different?

To all you who want to shut down human space flight. It WON'T happen! No why? Because you cannot stop China, and they, unlike us, are determined to push ahead. The tables will soon be turned if we choose retreat. Remember all those Chinese American laborers who worked hard under American-led transcontinental railroad bosses. Well, it will be payback time.

All you grumblers remind me of the Braveheart scene where everybody's just wanting to roll it up and go home. They won't stay and fight...."and dying on your beds, many years from now, how many of you would give up every day from this day to that, for just one chance".

Where's our William Wallace with fireball shooting from his arse?

Dear Save this...you may have the clarity of being right, but in the real world of practical politics-under our elected system-you cannot reasonably expect elected public officials, say, from Utah to stand idly by and agree to ANY policy that results in the close of the production of solid fueled rockets in the United States (and in Utah, no less). To do so, even if the booster design that replaced the use of solids (for example) was a better design, their constituencies would throw them out at the next election. Same is true for those jobs at Glenn in Ohio tied to Moon exploration. To cancel the Moon would throw these folks out of work-do you think Sen. Sherrod Brown would go along with that just because it made for a better space plan, say? He'd get booted real quick. It's always about retail politics-and my friends all politics is local....

Yeah, how's that whole "Hope and Change" thing working for ya?
Not too good I see.

As a concerned citizen, deeply troubled over the pending loss of several thousand "critical space shuttle jobs," I was very relieved to hear that Congressman Bill Posey - among other esteemed dignitaries - is throwing his full support behind the save-the-jobs effort. Perhaps
representative Posey will add some pro-NASA verbiage to the legislation he is sponsering that demands to see President Obama's official birth certificate? That would undoubtedly be a game changing development.

OK, that was admittedly a bit cynical, but the point is this: despite the political posturing, the proverbial handwriting has been on the wall for all those Shuttle Program jobs for quite some time. In its heart of hearts, NASA clearly understands that the shuttle is simply too
expensive to operate beyond its planned retirement date of 2010 or 2011. Indeed, even discredited former administrator Griffin is on the record stating that NASA simply can't afford to "own" a launch vehicle that costs the agency many billions of dollars a year, whether it
launches or not. And like it or not, those billions of dollars of built-in costs are directly attributable to the standing army that is presently charging its time to the shuttle budget.

So the question is not whether a bunch of shuttle jobs will disappear -- they most assuredly will -- but what course the agency will plot into the future. Will NASA continue to follow the path of Jobs Above All Else? Will it choose to wager its future on the misbegotten Ares I stick rocket, pour billions of additional good dollars after bad, and MAYBE return to low-earth orbit sometime around 2017? Or will the light bulb of common sense eventually be illuminated?

As discussed at length in this and other forums, there are sound technical alternatives to the stick available -- the EELVs and Direct among others -- that would allow NASA to pursue a real exploration agenda in the near term. My personal wish is that the agency will pursue some version of the Augustine flexible path, and perhaps begin to colonize the moon in my lifetime. That will obviously require some serious re-direction from the grownups, but a guy can hope....

"Hope and Change" got 54% of the popular vote and 62% of the electoral college vote.
Get over it.

Gotta disagree with at least the tone of your comments on this one, Keith; we should welcome these folks, and here's why:

Those of us geeky enough to follow the space news (and this site!) have known for many years that jobs were on the line.

Editor's note: And so has every single person in and around KSC - since January 2004 to be exact.

Similarly, the clients I represent bring land use projects through a very lengthy and well-known process, but very often the general public doesn't learn about it or react until the last minute, when it finally becomes more widely known. This is partly because the process is lengthy, arcane, and subject to reversal at many key points. Sound familiar?

Back to space: I welcome ANY help. Even if it's a little late. Even if it's maybe overly exuberant, and even if not all the facts are straight.

I must say that, to me, there are far more important reasons to fund NASA than jobs, important as they are to the families. But as to the help, bring it on.

Whatever it takes.

A sick, sick discussion thread occurring here. Shameful.

Editor's note: Gee, that's helpful. What is "sick" and "Shamefull?

Dear Frank, Thanks for the response. "Retail Politics". How unfortunate (but true!) is that?! IMO Politics/politicians are inherently corrupt due to the simple fact a large majority of people will only vote for that which benefits themselves ("all politics is local") and their local community. Regardless of the impact to the country or "mission" at hand. That said, the politician's job is to then represent that "request" on up the chain of command and then remind the voter of their "accomplishments".

The way I see it if, let's say, a company in North Carolina (15 electoral votes) was to develop a new "widget" that completely revolutionized space launch vehicles ATK and the UTAH contingent would be forced to (1) FINALLY reduce their excessive, monopolistic prices of their product(s) and (2) start looking to sell their product(s) elsewhere just to make ends meet. Otherwise, they will have to close plants.

But this is the way of innovation and change, in general, is it not? Of course the local elected officials are going to hear it from their constituents and attempt to influence policy making in Washington as a result. Why? To save their ass(es) and if they're lucky get re-elected! Instead of embracing the change and possibly adopting it, re-tooling, etc.

Keith;

I am an ardent supporter of a vibrant manned space program just like the majority of those posting here; my only complaint with this "Save our jobs" cry from the Florida crowd is that when California was seeing its Aerospace employment base being ripped to shreads via DOD cutbacks & base closures where was the outrage then? No one from Florida gave a RIP about the jobs being lost in California! In FACT some of those vary same people crying to save jobs in FLA were IN California recruiting CEO's to relocate to Sunny Tax free Fla!!! So, sorry FLA I for one will NOT be putting anything in your pitty pot! Y'all have known since 2004 this was coming, now to try and use the weak economy as your EXCUSE for not cutting the shuttle program! Please!