HSPD-12 Update

Wow a last minute appeal. That sounds like a new argument about privacy not being violated by the collection of data but by the sharing of it. A ruling in that direction would set the dogs loose with no constitutional limits on data collection only data sharing. That just sounds so .... Bush/Gonzales .... I mean even even Ashcroft stood up for more civil liberties than this administration. Don't get me wrong, Gonzales was so bad that I'm in no way saying the Obama admin is worse than the Bush admin when it comes to civil liberties. But one has to keep an open mind.

But at least the assertion that the collection of data is no violation so long as the information is not shared (with whom comes to mind...) sounds to me like a rather pioneering stance. Anyone out there with a legal background to deal with that? Let it be known the the US space program is pioneering effort on all fronts.

Sorry,

I just don't get you people who object to this--and YOU are at every NASA location. You people like your little research jobs and you surely love your big government pay checks.

But when YOUR employer requires you to submit paperwork to verify who YOU are--YOU start crying, shouting and objecting that Uncle Sam has no business in your personal life.

Fact #1 You are not being investigated for a security clearance--it is way more simple than that! At best they are verifying your address and MAYBE your credit history and that's it.

Fact#2 Each and every person who works at an airport in these United States has to have the very same background investigation and that was way before 9/11.

YOU all are crying that you don't do classified work and it shouldn't apply to you and you should be left alone to write your little research papers so you can publish your so important theory on the effects of burning toilet paper in zero G.

Every research paper you guys write goes to one of the billion analysts sitting in a cubicle at the CIA or NSA or wherever so it can be looked at to see first and foremost if it may have any military application.

As I said before, you love your little government, flextime, research jobs and the BIG government check that goes with them.

So when your BOSS (Uncle Sam) says please fill this out because it is a matter of security--you should be doing it!

If you don't like it---then maybe you should go work for the private sector for a while so you can truly learn how to appreciate the fortunate positions you now have.

Your job is a position related to or payed for (directly or indirectly)by the U.S. Government and it's taxpayers.

You should feel absolutely fortunate to be working for NASA and/or the US Govt. and not be acting like you are ENTITLED to your job.

Sorry mister spiffy spaceman -- you need to do some research on NASA's implementation of the HSPD-12. It was most definitely *not* like your so-called "facts" #1 and #2 that you claim. In general I recommend that you distinguish your unfounded assumptions from researched facts. The objection is not against a simple background check to verify identity (which in fact is all that HSPD-12 asked for), but against an open-ended background investigation as implemented by NASA with bizarre criteria.

There is a ton of real information at http://hspd12jpl.org . I especially like the "suitability matrix".

Spaceman, you don't know what you're talking about; the non-classified investigations are a hell of a lot more intrusive than that - with no effective limits.

The most worrisome thing, as someone who voted for Obama, is that this continues the Obama Administration's policies of following the Bush Administration's flouting the Constitution they swore to protect. By maintaining that the government can collect any and all personal information at any time for no reason - and that that doesn't violate privacy - is ridiculous: the sole reason for collecting the data is to violate privacy, by definition.

For its unconstitutional and illegal actions, Congress should act - but, just as Republicans violated their oath of office to protect the Constitution when Bush was in charge, the Democrats are violating their oath now that Obama is in charge.

Spiffy!

Let me turn your question back on you. What do you gain by constant verification and background checks? How many reports do you hear from bad people pulled from some activity as a result of government intervention into life's normal activities? Look at the Islamo-Wack job at Ft Bliss. There were warning signs all over the place, what happened to him? He was administratively shuffled all over the place with the hope that someone else would take care of him. Benjamin Franklin was pretty astute when he noted that a police state has the effect of denial of liberty at the gain of no or little security. Don't forget 20 years ago we went against a nation with 10's of thousands of nuclear weapons aimed at us, and they penetrated and compromised every level of our national security aparat. Yet we still won the cold war.

So I ask again. What is gained with a big intrusive government security aparat? What makes you think the US security apparatus will lead to anything different from the kinds of problems all the worlds other security apparatchiks have led to?

Andrew

It's worth pointing out over and over again, that although the pretext for these employee investigations is HSPD-12, in fact they have nothing to do with HSPD-12, and they most explicitly are not required or even suggested by the actual text of the directive HSPD-12.

HSPD-12 is a directive that, basically, says that employee identification badges should be non-forgeable, and issued by a reliable authority. That's it. It does not in any way suggest or authorize checking anything about an employee other than verifying the identity-- it does not propose the bank statements, credit records,and medical records of employees, or propose investigators should be sent into the field to ask friends, neighbors, and acquaintances about the private lives of government employees.

As for Spaceman Spiff's comment: if the investigations actually were merely what you said-- "requires you to submit paperwork to verify who YOU are"-- nobody would be objecting. The problem here is that the investigations proposed are vastly more intrusive than that.

Out of curiosity (I admit I haven't been following this at all) - do JPL contractors have to do a different background check than the rest of NASA? I haven't heard of this kind of backlash from any other NASA center.

I had to do the same background check when I started working at the FAA in early 2001; it didn't seem to bother anyone there either. The worst part of it was filling out the form (how the heck should I know the phone number of a college roommate I haven't seen in years?).

Just wondering.

eep wrote: "I had to do the same background check when I started working at the FAA in early 2001"
No, you didn't.
2001 was years before HSPD-12.

Andrew,

I agree with your entire post--plenty of bad apples that didn't get weeded out by the system put in place to do just that--- but it is what it is.

Geoffrey,

Previously, criminal background checks have been required for ALL airport or airline employees hired after December 2000 and for any employees hired before December 2000 who showed gaps in employment.

These FAA background checks are of the same requirements and were/are handled by OPM and these check effected 1 million plus airport workers.

And,

Yes, HSPD-12 is a directive regarding employee identification badges to be non forge-able, and issued by a reliable authority and the mechanism of verification for HSPD-12 is an OPM background check and it is stated as such on the NASA website regarding HSPD-12.

At this time all government employees have been mandated to submit to the HSPD-12.

I have read the entire HSPD-12 on the NASA.GOV website and I just don't see a problem with it, nor do I see an open ended investigation even though I don't have to fill it out.

It is a simple background investigation, (NACI) National agency check and adjudication which includes inquiries to verify your schooling, law enforcement records and to verify your current and former residences.

Then HSPD-12 specifies "other references" which means the 3 references that YOU supply.

That's it!

Zero indication of "open ended investigations" or required "bizarre" criteria.

The way I see it--it is the price of admission.

I really do understand your concerns about privacy--but this is now a requirement of your job and I have heard a few of you say that you MAY not have taken the job you now have had it been a requirement of employment when you came on board or you will leave if you have to fill it out.

I really don't think that the government will reverse course on this for 100 or so people when so much has already been invested and hundreds of thousands have already submitted their info and I feel your suit may ultimately fail so the question is..........

Are any of you really going to walk away from your positions over this?

Some of you may or may not have something to hide-- transgressions of the past with corrective actions are for the most part forgiven depending on the seriousness and corrective action taken since.

Are there disqualifiers? Sure! But this is part of the point isn’t it? The government wants to know just WHO they have in their midst.

Like I’ve said before--you're not going for a security clearance!

But, if you have something to hide--you may have a problem.

Spif