President Obama Live

YAWN!!!!

Typical PR stuff. It was cute, but I would have liked to see some policy discussion and back and forth outside of the usual "do you like space" type of comments.

Typical indeed but he did take the time and effort. This isn't his first call to the station either. If he does these things he's blasted by the Kool-Aid drinkers for just doing stunts and if he doesn't then he's blasted for not taking the time. This was part of an event with middle school kids who are taking part in an engineering competition in Washington. Aside from that, it was nice to see my old middle school in Detroit represented!

Biggest whopper....

"My commitment to NASA is unwavering"

So much so I have reneged on my promises and will now attempt to GUT human spaceflight at NASA. LOL

Mike Schriber, don't get me wrong, I enjoy these conferences, and I personally find nothing wrong with it. I just sometimes wish more relevant discussion was made. I know what several of the HST servicing mission conferences were quite mature on a level of discussion.

It is admittedly a bit silly of me to expect something like that with middle schoolers, though.

Congrats that it was your old middle school! The ISS guys do weekly shows like this, many many of the public schools are represented. It's quite cool. And people want to bash the ISS and the manned space program when, hello, we have guys floating around in space on any given day, and if you google for "NASA Sightings" on a clear night you may just be able to get a chance to see the ISS fly over (it's already brighter than Venus, and is the brightest object in the sky other than the moon or sun; let that sink in, for a minute, the brightest object in the sky other than the moon or sun is a man made object).

Mike:

I don't usually respond to posts from people that use the "kool-aid" comment as a substitute for reasoning but in this case I will make an exception.

The reason this is a yawner is that there has never been a Presidential "phone call" that has inspired a single would be engineer/scientist/astronaut. Didn't work for any of my generation of engineers when Nixon talked to Armstrong and Aldrin while on the moon and it won't work now. Another in a long line of politicians paying lip service to our space program is not going to inspire kids or anyone else. Again it's the mission that's important and LEO and President (insert name here) isn't going to cut it.

Mike Hilton, ISS is the greatest accomplishment of mankind after the moon landing (HST servicing ranks 3rd). The reason that kids don't see it this way is because guys like you love to downplay the accomplishment.

If you have kids take them out one night when the ISS is passing over head. Preferably a long duration transit right after the sun goes down. After doing so, ask them if they think the ISS was brighter than Venus. When they tell you, "Yeah, it was a lot brighter!" and their eyes are big with enthusiasm, tell them, "We built that."

The third brightest object in the sky after the moon and sun is a man made structure that can comfortably accommodate 12 people, and is at any given time manned by 6.

Going beyond LEO is a guaranteed achievement, we've done it before, and we'll do it again. In the meantime, stop pretending our activities in LEO are not manned flight and are not substantial.

Because they are.

In the big picture of things, there are many bigger issues, but...

it was really sad to hear that he is clueless about what the Earth looks like from LEO. He confused the myth that the Great Wall is visible from the Moon with what is visible from LEO.

There have been so many iconic pictures from Shuttle and ISS, I would have hoped that someone from one of the program offices gave him one. Among others: the WTC burning on 9/11, a Shuttle on its way to the pad, I-610 and I-45 in the Houston area, the Great Wall, and the Golden Gate Bridge.

Ok, he's a busy dude who focused on law and politics. But he's now in charge of the whole government, not just the part he likes. I feel like he is a kid with a toy in a box, and he's decided to throw out the box, rather than even taking one look at what he's throwing away.

This event seemed to be painful for him; as though he was forced to do it. We're so screwed.

Fair enough Mike. I don't usually resort to the "Kool-Aid" description myself but the hysterical Obama bashers have been coming out of the woodwork here lately. However, you are correct, it's a weak substitute to reason but sometimes even reason isn't going to make a difference.

I have to disagree with your assessment though. The phone call from the President itself is a gimmick. However, I find it hard to believe that being at the White House, with the President, talking to the crew on ISS isn't going to make a very big impression on some of these students. Keep in mind that they're already in Washington as team leaders of an engineering challenge. They're predisposed as it were.

Politicians do indeed play lip service. Presidents do it, as do members of Congress along with state and local officials. There is a lot of lip service going on right now from elected officials in states with NASA contractors and centers who state they support NASA and the mission when all they really want to do is get reelected. If everyone was so concerned, you'd hear from representatives of the other 46 states as well (yes, I know there are a few but 99% are from Florida, Alabama, Texas and Utah).

The mission is indeed important but the particular hardware or architecture is not. Constellation was not going to work and I'm willing to let the Administration and NASA articulate their mission plans before deciding if they are worthy or not. However, I personally believe that, in general, this new direction is the right way forward (for a number of reasons I've already posted in other comments).

"..there has never been a Presidential "phone call" that has inspired a single would be engineer/scientist/astronaut."

a phone call is 90% PR to get a headline out about the fact that there even is a space station above us.

the only thing that inspires kids these days is playing xbox and retiring at age 20 on dividends of xbox xboxes, and everyone knows it, thats why we should give up on inspiring youth to do anything, and seek out more and larger xboxes for children to xbox.

obama should just give up on everything really. why should he care. hes already president. why not just sit back and start up some halo.

Who cares about interviews show me good science! Wheres the scientific platform that is going to help us in understanding the many different fields of science? If there is no science its nothing more than a orbital holiday Inn.
If I'm wrong show me the contributions ISS has made to science, beyond human space duration studies. If you can show me any significant advancement in science I will gladly recant.

Transcript: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/shuttle_station/features/wh_call_sts130_iss_transcript.html

Some interesting bits:

"And so we just wanted to let you know that the amazing work that's being done on the International Space Station not only by our American astronauts but also our colleagues from Japan and Russia is just a testimony to the human ingenuity; a testimony to extraordinary skill and courage that you guys bring to bear; and is also a testimony to why continued space exploration is so important, and is part of the reason why my commitment to NASA is unwavering.

"But instead of me doing all the talking, I wanted you guys to maybe let us know what this new Tranquility Module will help you accomplish. One of the things that we've done with our NASA "Vision for the Future" is to extend the life of our participation in the Space Station. And so we just want to get a sense of the kind of research that you guys are doing, and then maybe I'll turn it over to some young people to see if they've got any questions. ...

"THE PRESIDENT: Well, some of the things that you talked about are in line with where we want to see NASA going increasingly: What are those transformational technologies that would allow us to potentially see space travel of longer durations? If we want to get to Mars, if we want to get beyond that, what kinds of technologies are going to be necessary in order for us to make sure that folks can get there in one piece and get back in one piece and that -- the kinds of fuels that we use and the technologies we use are going to facilitate something that is actually feasible? And we're very excited about the possibilities of putting more research dollars into some of these transformational technologies. So we're excited about what you're doing and what folks back on Earth as part of NASA's engineering teams and scientific teams are doing."

Contrary to your supposition, I do not “love to downplay the accomplishment” that is the ISS. I agree with you that it ranks second as an important development in U.S. HSF. However, my ranking, nor yours, of this accomplishment in no way bears on how inspirational the feat may be. So having said that, where we disagree is the relative merit that it has in the inspiration of our kids and the next generation of engineers.

For the record, I have no clue as to who you are, much less your scientific and technical background so if I make some statements that don’t take into account and thus marginalize your unique experiences, I apologize but think that after some assumptions you made about me, maybe I can be given a pass on a few I make of you.

I do take as a “given” that since you want to talk about what I need to do with my kids that you indeed have kids of your own. First my experience. My kids grew up in a house that was, and still is, steeped in science and engineering which is understandable since I’ve made a very successful living as a professional electrical engineer for the past 30+ years. My kids were exposed at a very young age to the sights that you suggest not to mention most of the manned and unmanned NASA launches on my satellite TV. I vividly remember their glee at the very prominent Leonid meteor shower on a cold November night in 1998 (if memory serves the correct date) and how my daughter kept talking about all the “sparklees”. I remember how beautiful my kids thought the rings of Saturn were when viewed in their first telescope. I also remember the many times that I stood in the predawn or evening twilight with and without my kids and watched as the ISS silently passed overhead. I also recall the sinking feeling in my gut whilst standing in my yard on February 1, 2003 and watching the Space Shuttle Columbia’s three main engines glowing and trailing vapor as they passed beyond my horizon on their way to impact about 70 miles south of my home. And last and most important, I remember how enthusiastic my son, then 14 years old, was when he heard we were going back to the moon. It was surreal to witness his reaction in light of my reaction to similar news 40+ years before. Have my kids been inspired by the ISS, Shuttle, or robotic missions? Based on my observations the answer is no. For the record my daughter will enter the university this fall as a psychology major and my son is a second year mechanical engineering student.

All of this background to point out to you that some of us old guys get a little tired (yes we are less energetic) of the younger crowd somehow thinking that only your generation knows what defines greatness, serves as inspiration and how to go about inspiring others. The mistake that many of you make is that the two terms are not necessarily linked nor or they mutually exclusive. As with most concepts the truth lies somewhere between extrema.

There are a lot of things that are wrong with society and I won’t take up your time to list them here but one of the biggest is that too many think that because they can program a computer, use a cell phone, a microwave, an Xbox, and perform other various acts of operating appliances that this ability somehow is an advancement that rivals the opposable thumb and imbues them with game changing ideas. Every generation has thought that, mine included.

Inspiration does not come from doing something over and over. If we had human colonies on the moon or Mars, I contend that they, in and of themselves, eventually would not inspire anyone either. That is where you and yours make a fatal and false assumption that somehow the substantive result of an activity is what drives the inspiration. If that were true I imagine that the rather large and technologically advanced waste treatment plant just installed in your city would inspire a whole generation of new engineers. Frankly, if you did a survey of first year engineering students to determine from where they received their inspiration, I doubt that a grand septic plant would rate very high on the list. Was the project substantial? Was it important? Was it needed? All can be answered with an emphatic yes but inspirational? Hardly, especially if you grew up with septic plants and the conveniences they provide. Accomplishments in space or any engineering endeavor are no different.

That is the nature of the beast and no amount of education and chest beating over the accomplishment is going to change that fact. I concede that some, but not many, are going to be inspired by the known. The human is quick to adapt to whatever the environment and most are inspired when we are pushing back an unknown, and that sir, is MY experience.

Finally, I take offense at your charge that I “pretend our substantial activities in LEO are not manned flight”. I have never made that assertion. I have rightfully made the distinction in other posts that our LEO activities are not manned EXPLORATION of space. A great distinction that I guess I wrongfully assumed most understood. But then again what do I know? I’m just an old engineer that got his inspiration during an age of manned space exploration not “space exploitation” (not my term, it was used ad nauseum in the late seventies following Apollo to inspire the masses while describing NASA’s paradigm shifting new vision that we know as LEO). Although some did, a great mass of kids did not rush to the engineering schools in the past 35 years because of that vision and will not if we continue the same.

As Augustine (with all due respects to him, another old engineer) reported:

“The Committee concludes that the ultimate goal of human exploration is to chart a path for human expansion into the solar system. This is an ambitious goal, but one worthy of U.S. leadership in concert with a broad range of international partners”.

We can and will argue ad infinitum on just where to go and about the tools but I think that Augustine and others are on the right track by realizing that LEO is not a worthy goal of a great nation and the past 35 years of tepid political will and funding has proven that.

"Have my kids been inspired by the ISS, Shuttle, or robotic missions? Based on my observations the answer is no."

A return to the moon is going to not be any more inspirational than ISS, STS, or robotic missions. It requires us as mentors to show how these things are in fact inspirational. Indeed, from an exploration perspective, going beyond the moon is the only thing that can really inspire people. "The astronauts are now further away from Earth than any other humans." If *only* because the media would actually *cover* it.

Just fyi, I have no kids of my own, but I have mentored my nieces and nephews. With great success. It requires framing the realities of our space program, though. I could just as easily convince a child that the ISS isn't interesting. It's easy. Make them watch a 5 hour EVA. Hell, that makes grown adults disinterested. You have to be seriously hard core to actually enjoy that sort of thing.

A story I often tell was when I saw a Lunar Eclipse a few years ago overlooking Lake Pontchartrain in Kenner, LA (near New Orleans). This was in an affluent area, with a playground next to the picnic tables. Dozens of kids were playing on the swing set, the jungle gym, and sand boxes. Parents, likewise, were looking at their cell phones, tending to bruised knees or runny noses. And here I am, the only person apparently watching one of the most amazing Lunar Eclipses I've ever seen. I still regret not standing up and loudly exclaiming for everyone to look up.

When I saw my first sighting of the ISS (once it was mag -3), I did that very thing. The people who saw it with would ask me about future sightings on a regular basis, and these were relatively uneducated folk. "When is ISS?" was a common query.

We have failed to make people aware of our universe. The last landing on the moon was not even televised. That should tell you just how inspirational a return to the moon would be. Yeah, first landing, maybe second might be interesting. But just like with ISS, the media will cut away and you won't have anything to show for it.

The moon landing was our greatest achievement? ISS is second? I think we all know that NASA's greatest mission has already been scientifically determined to be the Wallops Superpressure Ballon.

You apparently like to make assumptions that presupposes actions or inactions on the parts of others. To wit, I have NEVER forced my kids to engage in an extracurricular activity for which they showed no interest after they were exposed and neither did my parents nor many parents of my generation. Your original post was framed as exposure, now in light of my rebuttal you want the debate reframed as "context". That's a real interesting debate style you have there.

By the way the last lunar landing was covered by Walter Cronkite. I still have the audio recordings made from the CBS TV coverage. Your faulty memory not withstanding, I hope you have continued good luck with your nieces and nephews.

Mike:

Thanks for a reply and an expansion on your thoughts. I don't think that we are that far apart on the assessment of the amount of inspiration a Presidential phone call can make.

You say that they may be predisposed because they are engineering students, agreed. Well, I contend that inspiration is quite different from impression. I have no doubt that they were impressed, who wouldn't being in the same room as the President, but they were already inspired by some other event or person (maybe josh) before they got there.

I still contend that while impressive it is not necessarily inspirational.

Thanks again.

lets be real. how many times in someones life are they inspired to do something.. anything?

zomgoodnesss the new xbox just came out!!! zomgooooooooddd mommomomomomomo pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee buy me an xbox omg pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee illll do ANYTHING!!!

First, I'm not a Obama basher before I get labeled as such. But I can tell when someone is obviously clueless and talking in a placating manner. My big brother still does it to this day,knows everything about something and nothing about everything.

Second, I appreciated the fact that the astronaut brought up Apollo. Although for politicians(be it republican or democrat)now its like the 300 lb gorilla in the room. They usually only invoke Apollo when they are trying to get you believe what good Americans they are.

Lets face it the bar was set high, we can ignore it if we want to but, it happened its not going away. We have to do better plain and simple. If we don't? John q public is going to turn to one of his other 1000 digital channels and watch reruns of Sanford and Son.