Conflicting and Colliding Messages Regarding "Plan B"

Good God, what the heck is going on up there! The rudder seems to be not just unmanned, but altogether gone! The field centers are floundering and analysis paralysis has set in. The longer this takes, the harder it's going to be to find a way forward, and more, a way forward with employees (gov't and contractor) who care about the quality of their work at that point. I know we're not the top priority, but we've got to be in the top ten? Hello? Does anyone care?

"... many in Congress don't even see a vision for the space agency if there is no government owned and operated human space flight program ..."

Ah, but there will be a government owned and operated human space flight program ... Russian.

Shoddy reporting leading to rumor mongering. In my humble opinion.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6897982.html#

Several good rebuttals to Walt Cunningham's editorial, that are probably good indicators of how much of the public sees this, if they are aware of anything at all.

"Good God, what the heck is going on up there! The field centers are floundering and analysis paralysis has set in."

Sorry, but there has not been leadership in about five years, since the last Administrator and his Constellation minions took their places, and since active plans began to shut down Shuttle with no viable replacement yet on the factory floor-actually not yet even on the drawing board since 5 years later they are still trying to finish PDR.

There was no leadership in DC, or in Huntsville, or in Houston. Still isn't.

Everyone is in a state of denial.

The astronauts are still suffering from Lindbergh syndrome. Lindbergh of course did an exciting and daring thing once, and won world acclaim, and when he stepped outside his experience base of airplane driver, and entered into US domestic and NAZI world politics, he became hated and scorned and soon was not even permitted to help out in the military during WWII.

It really comes back to why NASA is in the situation its in. For many years NASA management has been putting people with little of the requisite experience into critical positions. Now people are losing faith in your ability to do the job, and with good reason.

You had one critical role the last 5 years, to build the replacement for Shuttle. You failed.

Leadership is coming from Bolden and 2 days ago, Hutchison, though even her proposed bill comes several years late.

Translation:

Garver found out, told Bolden to shut it down. Bolden hangs Coats out to dry.

The way this has been handled seems synonymous
with how the Obama administration handles most issues.

I was thinking the exact same thing, even about the terrorist trials, which are just about reversed. It seems Obama's lack of experience that many worried about is very real, and yes naivete rules the day. It could very well be he does not care about public opinion, which would ironically caste him as more like Bush than his supporters would ever admit.

NASA is in shambles from bungling from not just two presidents, but by the highly partisan BS of several Congresses stretching back to SLI and OSP days. Now throw-in the essentially partisan bickering of the "Constellation Huggers" alongside the "anything but Constellation clans" and the "Mars First zealots" and you have the recipe for a political, NOT scientific, and definitely NOT engineering, quagmire.

I've made other predictions on these fora, and they have been right. How about this one: It will get worse before it gets better. And it might not even get better. We may be witness to the beginning of the end of NASA, at least as we once knew it.

You had one critical role the last 5 years, to build the replacement for Shuttle.

I suggest that one of the flaws in the Ares/Orion proposal is the idea that one type of spacecraft, the Orion capsule, could do it all: replace the Shuttle and also be the optimum crew vehicle for travel to lunar orbit and back.

Some Orion enthusiasts also claim that Orion could be used for voyages to Mars. I doubt that.

Human travel to Mars will require a larger, radiation-shielded spacecraft and a propulsion system that can make the trip in closer to 8-10 weeks than 8-10 months one way.

My point is that a crew capsule might be OK for lunar missions, but something that lands horizontally on a runway is better for frequent flying to LEO and back. The USA needs to have at least two spacecraft in development -- one for LEO and one for lunar missions. And Mars travel will need much more than either of those.

I don't care whether the capsule is NASA's or Elon Musks'. After the Shuttle, ballistic capsule landings are just too old-fashioned for frequent flying between Earth and low Earth orbit. ... Monkeys in a bucket stuff, no good for the 21st century.

Well said David, We need to assemble an interplanetary craft in orbit(we have the capability and skill with the assembly of ISS), then go to the moon and back with an attached lander. Later modify the craft for Mars missions and service with the Shuttle or follow on vehicle. Yes, it will be expensive, however, every time this craft is used, the overall cost will decrease. It is a shame that this administration is throwing this capability away when we have perfected techniques building the ISS along with the expertise for contstruction in space.

Nothing new needs to be thought up. Plans A, B, C, D, E, F, and G are all discussed in detail by http://www.nasa.gov/offices/hsf/home/index.html

It is a very simple logic. NASA needs more money or less cost. There is no more money. So Plan A lowers cost by laying people off and buying things differently.

The obvious Plan B keeps as many people employed as possible with Shuttle extension and SDHLV. You can see how this conflicts with having money left over to go somewhere.

Seeing all these congressmen lie about their motives is a little tiresome. Sure, they are all great HSF boosters, except they don't fund it, don't understand it much and don't seem to trust R&D. How you can be for space and not HSF R&D is completely beyond me.

All they want are jobs in their district.

You're right.

They could have and should have thought about how the Orion could be used for future missions, moon, Mars, but the immediate job was to develop a vehicle to support LEO and ISS.

The error was in trying to set up a management structure that was going to plan out the details of the next 40 years of space exploration, and giving them the entire end-to-end responsibility. Especially when so much of the Constellation management had so little experience in (1) designing, developing or building anything and (2) doing any kind of long term planning and strategy.

If NASA were doing its job of advancing technology, then the one thing that ought to be predictable is that the spacecraft and systems we will be using in 40 years won't look too similar to what we are designing today.

This was a management failure. It was a failure to set up the program management properly at the start, failure to focus on the job at hand, and then failure at implementation. Contractor and workers were doing what they were told, which was mainly going in circles. It was a love-fest though, with everyone thinking everyone was wonderful. The only problem was that the job did not get done.

He can say there is no plan B, but reality is there is going to be, and a plan C and D before it's over.

I agree with the comments that Obama does seem to backpedal.

This is both good and bad.

It's at least good that he is willing to listen and back off when he's feeling the pressure.

It's not so good that he doesn't seem to find the right approach first and stick with it. Then we end up with the results of a congressional fight with all the politics that comes with it. Congress's approval rating is far lower than the president's for good reason.

"It will get worse before it gets better. And it might not even get better. We may be witness to the beginning of the end of NASA, at least as we once knew it."

We're clearly singing from the same sheet-music...

Cancelling everything, and just starting again from scratch - and doing so as a result of a few people in a closed room, with no outreach - lunacy! (What an ironic word to apply, given the root from which it comes...)

"After the Shuttle, ballistic capsule landings are just too old-fashioned for frequent flying between Earth and low Earth orbit. ... Monkeys in a bucket stuff, no good for the 21st century."

Yup, we need 'airliners on steroids' (TM) instead!

Let's painfully drag all that extra mass (control surfaces, actuators, etc, etc) all the way into orbit, so we can use them for 2 minutes on the return.

This seems apropos at the moment - who's on first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M

The resources from and the technology for going to and operating on the moon would go a long way towards helping solve energy and environmental problems here on earth. The goal of space transportation should not only be exploration but also utilization. With out such a pragmatic Goal there Will Be No Space Program!

It would be foolish for NASA to simply throw away everything that it has learned during the shuttle era.

We know how to build a space plane, so lets fully fund a man rated the HL-20 or X-37 so that we can still have the capability of bringing at least some payloads back from orbit. The 4 segment SRBs have now had more than 20 years of success and the SSME, nearly 30 years of success and that also goes for the ET. So let's use these components to develop are truly shuttle derived HLV.

If we simply throw all of this successful shuttle technology away and simply start over again, were going to regret it. Just think how successful the shuttle era could have truly been if we still had the Saturn V to compliment it as a heavy lift vehicle.

Marcel F. Williams

"Garver found out, told Bolden to shut it down"

You know, I have worked here at JSC - shuttle and station for almost 30 years and I, like many are going through a grieving process at the shuttles retirement. And I am not thrilled with the "new direction" - I love smoke and fire.

But you know, you are an arse to make comments like that - it serves no purpose and does no good -I can remember Bolden as a pretty hard core guy back in the days when he worked for a living. He had this policy in meetings - BLUF - Bottom Line Up Front - give me the facts and don't try and dress it up.

He was direct to the point and in charge back then, and I am willing to place my trust in the weathered old Jar Head now.

Whatever he is, he is not Garver's puppet.

Akear

The greatest Moment in the health care activity were the fights at town hall meetings in Florida the Sunshine state.

Sorry you do not have productive work, Clean you office and organize your files? K?

You can also work on a orbital vehicle for the FAA Space flight port in New Mexico in your spare time, K?

You are truly offensive. Please cease and desist.

Well, I'm sorry if you don't like my comment, but I stand by it. It is now Bolden's job to be a "yes" man for Garver and the Administration. Witness "his" latest memo to the troops forbidding them from working on alternatives to the PROPOSED 2011 budget.

Any "normal" administration works with Congress and NASA BEFORE rolling out the agency's budget. Apparently, it was the plan of THIS Administration to NOT do this, then subsequently forbid the debate that should have occured six months ago.

The final act in this "play of arrogance" will be when the Administration finds a way to circumvent the Congressional language prohibiting changes to NASA programs in 2010 without Congressional approval and shuts down Constellation before the proposed budget is even passed. This is in work.

The confusion will continue until Mr. Obama gets adult supervision in the next election cycle. After that, I do not believe we will like the fiscal prescription. The USA budget will be brought under control with respect to deficit spending. Budget freezes/cuts across the board, to the point that I expect Civil Service salaries to be cut by about 7%. We will enter our equivalent of Japan's "lost decade." Times they are a changin'... The wise plan accordingly...