Government Vs Commercial Astronauts

Without Shuttles, Astronauts' Careers May Stall, NPR

"NASA administrator and former astronaut Charlie Bolden talked about that prospect when he visited Kennedy Space Center in Florida earlier this year, saying it would be a different approach for NASA to rent not just the space vehicle, but also a private crew of astronauts to go with it. "We need to have the discussion of how important is it to have a career astronaut contingent, as opposed to none," Bolden said. He said that NASA's international partners like the idea of an elite corps, and that he doubted some random person could quickly be trained to perform at the same level as NASA astronauts, who have devoted their lives to preparing for work in space. "We need to have the discussion of what the future -- the next generation of astronauts -- will be like," Bolden said."


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I’m not quite clear why it reads this way, however everyone acting as pilot in command (POC) in US airspace must have a FAA Medical Certificate, FAA Pilot License, FCC radio license and the necessary training to fly.

Taking a trip into outerspace was started in 1960s as unique. It is now 50 years later and we still only have military pilots flying spacecraft.

The FAA was given the authority to start its effort in commercial spaceflight after sts-107. The FAA with the DOD and NASA are working on this effort starting with Suborbital flights with spaceport license being granted like airports.

Back when, not so long ago, when NASA was conducting Spacelab missions and the final Spacehab mission was destroyed as Columbia made its entry NASA flew payload specialists that were not NASA astronauts in the sense of being elite.

The notion of being elite is fading fast as people(the public) move toward spaceflight and the FAA requirement to do so becomes known and Congress give the authority to proceed.

Does the government have pilots and commanders outside the military, yes it does in many forms such as the CIA and NOAA and NASA. The Astronaut office will still exist however it will not have the same look and feel as it has in the past.

The whole idea of how this will happen and exploration can begin is something that was ignored by ESMD is a large way until now. It is largely unknown and the spaceflight Centers just do not know what to think? Why are the budgets Zeroed??? How does it feel after every year having this done by Mike G without explanation except to fund CxP.

Hey the funding you had last year on the effort you started is zeroed. We do not need you because this is not helping to build the rocket. This is now over thank goodness! ESMD is moving on with the task of exploring the solar system with humans. The rocket is not the center piece of going to the moon.

The Apollo redux was not going to happen from the start. It was a pipe dream started and supported by the few you got funded as part of CxP. I remember Mike G telling us during a visit. Leave NASA your work is not needed anymore. I have the same to say to Mike G now however he is not a NASA employee at this point in time.

Sorry, you are confused. No pilot with and FAA airmans certificate (it's not a license, legally there's a difference) is required by law to have an FCC "restricted radio telephone operators permit" in order to operate as Pilot in Command (correct acronym is "PIC" not "POC") while in U.S. airspace, EXCEPT when operating a station on other than VHF or when acting as PIC of a U.S. registered aircraft outside the U.S..

Additionally there is no law requiring that a foreign licensed pilot have an FAA pilot certificate nor valid FAA medical certificate to be PIC in U.S. airspace. They are operating here under ICAO (for air carriers) or reciprocal agreements (permits for individuals).

So I'm confused as to where you come up with "everyone".

Hey Mike
Thanks for the input.
No I'm not confused.

Sport pilot aside.

So My Certificates and Permits give me License as I think to go fishing in Florida with state ID even though I have a Drivers License which allows me to drive most any place on earth.
Gee I even have BATF FFL and other radio papers for my boat, aircraft, radios and spacecraft to have a happy time with.

have a great easter!

Its even worse than that!
Whilst there still will be a need for (Military) test pilots in the aero-space industry. Their role will merely be to monitor the autopilot and hopefully recover the craft if a 'fly by wire' algorithm fails catastrophically. Eventually there won't even be a cockpit!
Alas automatic R n' D and Unmanned Space Vehicles are the future. Probably the only manual controls in a Crew Taxi will be two large large red buttons: One saying: "abort to space" and the other: "abort to ground!"
Any elite astronaut/pilot will merely be there as a reassurance factor.
What is the ideal cockpit crew?
A: A pilot and a dog...
Eventually we won't even be allowed to drive!

The days of NASA's LEO pilots are over. What I want are deep space pilots. Chaps who fly to the Moon and Mars. Frequently.

Lets get them lots of work and a takeoff date within say 6 years.

Keep asking about the takeoff for the Moon date.

Its been tradition that Astronauts (cosmonauts, etc) have been an integral part of the vehicles design and build/rebuild process, so that they know it as well as anyone can.
Why would you buy a Seat from someone then hire a guy outside of that program to fly it?

If NASA is only buying a passenger tickets on someone elses ship, it makes sense that the "airline" supply any essential crew needed to insure a safe and productive ride.

I hope Not, at least I'm working so this will not happen!
Here is some classic flying with excellent CRM!

Shoot! A fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qqfsQGYus
Slim Pickens: Dr. Strangelove ("Noo-ku-lar Combat") Monologue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ynY5NvYsZY

"NASA administrator and former astronaut Charlie Bolden talked about that...

"We need to have the discussion of how important is it to have a career astronaut contingent, as opposed to none," Bolden said.

He said that NASA's international partners like the idea of an elite corps, and that he doubted some random person could quickly be trained to perform at the same level as NASA astronauts, who have devoted their lives to preparing for work in space.

"We need to have the discussion of what the future — the next generation of astronauts — will be like," Bolden said."

In other words they made the decision without thinking or consulting. If they "need to" do all these things it'll leave people in a state of flux and uncertainty. Bolden should already have a plan in place which enables the payload specialists to move sideways in NASA, and consulting with the ULA's, SPACE X's, OSC's etc as to employing the pilots.

After all, it'll be at least 2020(sorry, make that 2029: the 60th anniversary...) before we fly our own BEO stuff again - and with only 2 or mostly 1 Astronauts flying on Soyuz until at least(I don't doubt)2015 before SPACE X/OSC are man-rated we won't need 80 astronauts: do we need that many now? Funny most of 'em would have been languishing 'til '17-18 in any case, if The Stick had flown people(God forbid!) Let's see: 80 Astro's at $100K each...waste of public money! Commercialize the lot of 'em!

Hey "not confused":

With all due respect to your certificates you need to take a stroll through the FAR/AIM. You must be confused to think that I was refering to the Sport Pilot Certificate when in fact I was not.

At any rate, a certificate can be revoked or suspended by the "certifying agency" without judicial process. That is the reason why a Private/Commercial/ATP (and yes Sport Pilot) is a certificate and not a license. You can legally operate an aircraft in U.S. airspace as PIC only if you have the correct certificates, ratings and recency requirements for the regulations under which you are operating an aircraft. So no, you do not have "license" to fly in the legal sense. Again, licensure and certification are two different legal entities.

Federal, state and local laws pertaining to hunting, fishing, automobiles, boats (including VHF radios therein in which the operator is either licensed or permitted) and firearms insofar as FFL's go ARE licensure issues but do NOT have bearing on aviation so your original post about "everyone" needing a restricted radio telephone operator's permit to act as PIC in U.S. airspace is still in error. Nice try.

I did have a great Easter and hope you did same.


Hey Mike
On the AIM/FAR I have read them over a few times as of late.

On the POC I was meaning Point of Contact as the PIC must be in line with FAA agreement which I think is also DOT for certs in general. This means the POC (everyone) must call in if you enter controlled US airpspace. My radio papers are good for out of country activity as is the aircraft.

The Pilot is responsible for flying into whatever airspace. If you do not have the correct cert/license it is your problem not the FAA's

Well if you carry firearms in your aircraft the BATF does have some say in the matter depending on what you have and where you land in the US.

On the radios yep the FCC calls involves the radio/aircraft/operator.

Take a look at the FAA site also. Cert/license is used somewhat loosely
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/

I realize that if I have license I have met all the requirement to fly. I can be revoked and the activity can be taken into the Judical if warrented

You have a very eclectic debate style there. I think that "Not confused" needs to be changed to "I'll change the parameters of the discussion as I go along". That technique is better known as "obfuscation".

Again, (even by your link) you do not have a license, you have a certificate. It can be revoked or suspended as WARRANTED not by the judiciary but by hearing/review by the FAA or the NTSB.

So AGAIN...your original post about "everyone" needing a restricted radio telephone operator's permit to act as PIC in U.S. airspace is still in error.

Good evening sir or madam and thanks Keith, I'm finished.

ahh yes
FCC radio license
was my original post

So AGAIN...your original post about "everyone" needing a restricted radio telephone operator's permit to act as PIC in U.S. airspace is still in error.
the above is YOUR ORIGINAL POST.

the radio permit, aircraft permit, the aircraft the radio is installed in, the radio itself all fall under the FCC, FCC radio license
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp
The ULS License Search enables you to search for a wide range of licenses in the Universal Licensing System.

It will be interesting to see what happens with commercial astronauts when they need to be licenced.

Hey Mike (the elite one)

So I'm laughing here on your "known requirements" thoughts.
Both the FAA and FCC call for LICENSE on there website. Your read the piece of paper and think you know it all.
This is classic
***
It can be revoked or suspended as WARRANTED not by the judiciary but by hearing/review by the FAA or the NTSB.
***
So can my Drivers License under certain laws!

You file an appeal against the FAA in court this is how the Judical is involved.
http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/guidance/media/Info%20Provided%20By%20PRIA%20FOIA%20and%20PA.rtf
The most drastic measure is a certificate “revocation.” This is issued when the FAA has determined that a certificate holder is no longer qualified to hold a certificate. Orders of “suspension” and “revocation” may be appealed to the National Transportation Safety Board, and the Board's decisions may be reviewed by a U.S. Court of Appeals.

Your in ERROR MIKE! LOL!

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About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by Keith Cowing published on April 4, 2010 7:04 PM.

Only NASA Could Take A Simple Idea And Make it This Complex was the previous entry in this blog.

The Question is Not "If" But How and Why to Keep Shuttles Flying is the next entry in this blog.

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