Looming Job Losses

You know, the dirty little secret you never hear mentioned here is that this whole “on again, off again” fire drill is going to cost lives. Everyone likes to berate the NASA contractor as a lazy and unworthy slob looking for a handout, and while we do have our “winners” most of those looking for a free ride tend to move on after only a few years.

When I read the posts on this site, and on the external articles it links to, I am always amazed at the caustic and bitter comments which portray NASA contractors as being hogs feeding at the trough of corporate welfare.

If there is a perception that we move to slow, its because the institution has trained us to be methodical. If it seems that we are in “bureaucratic lock down” its because as NASA claims to have moved more towards a “contractor managed effort” it has failed to cut the apron strings. Your traditional aerospace contractors are still being micro-managed by NASA. If it seems that we never finish a project, look towards our political masters who change direction with every election year cycle.

And then there are the cost over runs we are blamed for – many of which can be better blamed on the customer. When we are asked to provide a rocket to launch a chrome plated capsule into orbit we respond with a price. But after the project kicks off, we are told it must be red in color. A little further down the road we are told that it must have three square fins with green and blue running lights. I'm being facetious but customer driven “requirements creep” is the biggest player in aerospace cost over runs.

The truth be told, the career aerospace professional working working on Shuttle/Constellation/you-name-it has dedicated their life to a dream and this emotional roller coaster we have been on is talking its toll. Sooner or later someone is going to reach the breaking point, they are going to decide that it is no longer worth it, and sadly, they will likely go home and quietly “check out”

"I am not satisfied at this point that the president's plan is the best plan for men in space," said Florida Rep. Alan Grayson...

How again do you define "best"? Oh yeah, that plan which spends the most taxpayer money, employs the most government employee union workers, and puts the fewest people and least amount of permanent infrastructure in space. Sorry Alan, but the days of cost-plus contracting and government jobs programs have to end.

Retro spam canners trying to convince everybody that re creating an obsolete method of space travel to re enact past glories and spitting in the taxpayers face to keep their mouth open and checkbook shut

The Obama space agenda is politically unsustainable. So expect things to change again:-)

Marcel F. Williams

Texas and Alabama leadership have fought the Adminstration's plan at every turn, never even for a second trying to seek middle ground on a single point while blabbing about insane things like extending Shuttle until Constellation becomes operational to ISS (an ISS which won't exist after 2015 if Constellation continues even WITHOUT a Shuttle extension). Then they pull a disgusting stunt like last Friday in publishing childish/sour grapes remarks about SpaceX.
Now they want a handout from the Administration for being nothing but an inflexible nuisance since Feb 1 ?.....I guess that's politics at its 'finest'....By the way, I thought Republicans were against Gov't handouts......

SpaceMan85 - asinine statements by our elected representatives do not effect whether or not the folks at JSC and MSFC as just as worthy of transitional help as those at KSC.

Like it or not, we are all President Obama's constituents.

The President's plan is not a plan at all. Its really nothing more than the original Vision with some R&D thrown in to pursue some experiments.
It just puts us into a holding pattern for the time being, probably with no further decisions until after the next Presidential election.

If you are pro-human space, you'd best hope he is ousted in the next election, in which case the Republican will likely make a decision to do something. I anticipate that if Obama is back, then we are in for the 5 year hiatus just as he stated in his original presidential election platform.

Because NASA management has shown no leadership over the last 2-3 years other than to blindly follow the 'Griffin Program', it means we are left without Constellation, without Shuttle, and hoping that Mr. Musk proceeds with all due haste to give the country some kind of a space transport capability.

Once again, we see the only justification for continuing with the Constellation program coming down to keeping pork barrel jobs in Alabama, Florida, and Texas.

Gonzo - a couple of things. First, just because you believe that President Obama's plan for HSF is a travesty for not mean that you are a supporter of Constellation.

I know that I'm not a fan of either. However, while I do support and applaud SpaceX for their successful launch, I think that "betting the farm" on the as yet unproven commercial sector is dollar wise and pound foolish.

Second, the tone of your message, like the messages of so many of late, seems a little trite - most of those being displaced deserve your respect and a pat on the back, not a gleeful boot in the seat of the pants.

(by the way I'm a station kind of guy so my thoughts are not biased by the imminent loss of a job)

Thanks

I am sorry to say, I am being forced off the project next week. I have been told by my supervisors that NASA is saying that Orion is no more and that the coming budget cuts due to the termination liability will all but kill the program. Contract "termination" letters were received, though technically they didn't terminate the contract that sapped all funds that remained in the yearly budget.

It has been a life long dream to work on this project, my heart is saddened and I fear that whatever I do next (likely some DoD project) will not hold a candle to what I did on a daily basis on Orion, which was fulfill a life long dream of taking mankind back into the heavens.

All you CxP nay sayers really should consider the lives of the men and women which you daily show disrespect to with your flippant comments and obnoxious "LOLs". I only hope my wife and child are able to ride you this horrible dark age in our human history with their father furthering the death and destruction of fellow man.

The only unsustainable plan is Constellation. Augustine has testified that just to catch up the program would need billions more per year for the next five years. Does any sane person believe that this or the next Congress would ever appropriate that kind of money to any manned spaceflight program? Congress under both party control not only didn't add to the Bush requests-itself less than he had originally promised-but appropriated even less money! Despite all the angst about Constellation, these elected representatives have participated in creating the present crisis by their lack of funding support for the very program some are now saying was the best way forward. if so, why didn't they fight for funding when they had the chance? The truth is leaders of both parties just didn't give a damn about Constellation as it slipped further and further each year.
This is all political BS to justify another attack on President Obama.

NASA is just the whipping boy for a liberal wing of the Democratic Party that hates spending tax payer money on NASA but would love to send that money down the black whole of hyper expensive and highly inefficient programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

NASA is also the whipping boy of the right wing nut cases who believe that a paralyzed government is good government. Look what these conservative nuts have done to the great state of California where now you can't get anything done! They don't seem to understand that the problem with government isn't big government or small government. Its about good government vs. bad government. Even small 'bad government' can cripple your economy! NASA has to be destroyed by the Newt types because it works. And we can't have that! In fact it works so well that Americans actually think that NASA had to spend 24% of the Federal budget for their remarkable achievements:-) I wish!

And US politicians in general just use NASA as the symbol of a space program instead of as a real space program because they don't really want them to go anywhere. These lawyers in Washington just want people to stay right here on Earth so that they can continue to fleece us:-)

Chrish, You make an important point, one that no one else wants to talk about unguardedly.

I have known people in other fields who "checked out" because their life's work got erased. What I figured out from that is: Death never brought or can bring improvement.

We'll all face it, but what's left in a "checked out" scenario? Family, friends, and coworkers feeling the blame. Even unwanted acquaintances end up feeling the blame instead of the real culprits taking responsibility. Those who actively contribute to the dehumanization of others will feel guilt-free no matter what happens.)

Keep on, Chrish. Talk to the right folks and blow off the dumb f***s!

Out of curiosity, are any of the serious Constellation supporters in Congress or the Senate asking for extra money, given Augustine's assessment of how much extra the PoR needs? Has anyone put a figure on it?

My sincerest condolences. Orion is one of the few parts of CxP that I think everyone who wanted BEO exploration in the near-term could agree was of some use. Thank you for your efforts on behalf of HSF.

I think that with this event, we can wave farewell to any 'from the ground to BEO' spacecraft. IMHO, at least, all future HSF will be heavy spacecraft launched unmanned and then being crewed by personnel brought up by commercial LEO taxis.

I regret that anyone is loosing their jobs. But after decades of struggle the Shuttle is finally doing its job very well. Canceling Shuttle alone created the indefinite gap in US human launch capability. Canceling Shuttle is creating most of the job losses. Canceling Shuttle is leaving the ISS with insufficient logistic support, making it much less productive. Canceling Shuttle will not make it possible to land men on the moon again since neither party is willing to provide the money to send people to the moon.

If anyone can provide any logical reason for canceling Shuttle now please say so. But don't say "it's too late to change". It's never too late to do the right thing.

At the end of Apollo there were at least four suicides outside the KSC gate.

KSC NASA folks were pretty disappointed in the lack of fireworks on Friday. They wanted a chance to "help" the "amateurs". Now, there's not much real future work for them since sanity is currently prevailing and no one will be launching from KSC for the foreseeable future, maybe never again.

Epic battle shaping up on who gets the "modernization" money. Payback time.

"Shuttle is finally doing its job very well"

Everything was working great back in 1986 and 2003 too.

"Canceling Shuttle is leaving the ISS with insufficient logistic support, making it much less productive.

Of course you have data to back that up....

"If anyone can provide any logical reason for canceling Shuttle now please say so."

Because operating a $3 billion+/year LEO supply truck is too expensive for NASA make any progress on sustainable BEO capability ?

How old is your child? My daughter Lorelei is two months old. At the rate Constellation was progressing she would be in her twenties when it flew...and only after about 200 billion more dollars.

We can have a better future. Enjoy your next job, a lot of people dont have one now.

Robert G. Oler

I'm sure your misguided opinion of Constellations progress and dollars is of little comfort to those who will lose their jobs.

Change and chaos produce immense opportunities. Look at the emerging spaceflight systems and exploit the niches they create. Start new companies.

In a previous post Robert Oler told someone "Enjoy your next job, a lot of people dont have one now"

Robert: what, if any, purpose did that parting shot serve? Was it intended to accomplish anything beyond stirring the pot or causing angst?

Up until you said that, you post made a valid point and added value to the conversation.

Now, not so much.

"Up until you said that, you post made a valid point and added value to the conversation. "

I am regretful that you feel that way. This place is one for light not heat and to the extent that it added to the heat not the light I am quite sorry. The intention was not there, my reply was aimed at apoint and it was heartfelt.

As best I could tell the post that I responded to had two "angst"...one was that the job in Constellation was over...and the second was that the next job was with the DoD and that this job was somehow dishonorable.

I dont know any other way to take this sentence.

"I only hope my wife and child are able to ride you this horrible dark age in our human history with their father furthering the death and destruction of fellow man." ..."Father furthering the death and destruction of fellow man" was particularly illustrating.

I would make three expanded points. First if a person thinks that a job is dishonorable the honorable thing is not to take it. Second working on projects for the defense of The United States strikes me as an honorable job...and third

...be happy for a job. I do not know about elsewhere but I live in Clear lake City Houston...and I do a reasonable amount of "lunch and breakfast club" speaking on mostly aerospace/defense topics. There is a bit of a backlash growing in these areas that the folks who are in some job peril over cancellation of Constellation and the end of the shuttle are "whining" (to use the words of one person who is facing layoff from the Continental/UAL merger).

A lot of these people have morphed anti obama stuff into the "save our job" effort and a sort of "we are special because we are doing great things in human spaceflight and human spaceflight is the greatest thing in The Country". Hence anyone who is critical of those projects or suggest in any way that they are not essential, is out of line.

I voted and worked for the guy who lost the last presidential election...and I also know a lot of people who have not slid from one job to the next.

I know people who when their reserve or NG unit was called up went, and despite a lot of promises come back to an unemployment check or who are working at almost any job to keep food on the table (or to keep a table). I know people who are digging (literally) ditches on road construction gangs because it is the work that they can get...when they got laid off as pilots.

So for someone to complain about a job protecting the US, that is in their field seems a bit much. If I did not interpret what the guy wrote correctly then I apologize to him, you, the group,and KC. I am pretty convinced I did not.

Robert G. Oler

Got to love politicians. First you have a president who proclaims a new Vision for Space Exploration and then promptly submits insufficient funding requests for it year after year - why propose something that you refuse to fund properly? All these "space interested" allies in Congress seemed to have little to say about the under-funding even when it was made clear that lack of funding would significantly impact scheduled fielding of the Ares I/V. There was a choice following Columbia to either re-certify shuttle or retire it. The decision was to retire Shuttle and for at least _4_ years, the process of shutting down Shuttle has been on-going. There were few who questioned the wisdom of retiring Shuttle at a fixed date in the future and relying on the Russians when it wasn't all that certain that Ares I would be ready in time to reasonably close the gap. Again, no protests from these die-hard supporters of space exploration in Congress, no serious challenges to increase NASA funding, and they sat by as Shuttle shut-down proceeded even though massive job losses were a known fact. We have a new president, he has the program of record reviewed, it becomes painfully apparent that it's unsustainable and he orders it cancelled, proposing a new program within spending limits. Now they're all up in arms about job loss.

Here are the questions for these concerned politicians - did you hold hearings inquiring about the status of the Constellation previously to determine the true health of the program? Have you read and fully comprehended the Augustine Commission report and its conclusions? At what fiscal/schedule benchmark does Constellation become unsustainable in your opinion? If you so desire Constellation to continue, are you willing to put your political career and reputation on the line and take cuts to your favorite programs to fund Constellation continuation? Are you willing to propose (realistic) annual fixed cost and schedule (cancel if exceeded) targets for Constellation continuation over the next 5 years considering the $10 billion that has already been spent? The sad fact of the matter is if the Administration had chosen to continue Constellation and Bolden showed up in your chambers a few short years later begging for billions more, showing Constellation at least 5 years behind schedule, taxpayers are angry about paying the Russians millions, you would be ripping him a new one about how "questionable" his leadership of NASA was, even though that's EXACTLY the future he faces if we continue with this Constellation debacle. You would be raving about how the private sector is better than big government, even though that's precisely what the proposed new plan calls for. Lastly, are you willing to accept massive job losses in your district for the sake of NATIONAL space interests?
NASA shut down quite a few projects to fund Constellation - yes, there were quite a few job losses to fund Constellation. Here's what Griffin told the troops at the beginning of Constellation - (I paraphrase) if you are not able to find funding for your work (within the scope of the new direction then) then you need to find yourself another line of work outside the Agency. I believe Bolden recently suggested the same.

The job losses suck and I really feel for those losing their jobs. But I'm rather sick of the hypocrisy of politicians who attempt to exploit their misery for pure political points after standing by idly while the fire starts, wait till the structure is fully involved to scream "Fire" and blame the firemen for not saving the structure.

"Here's what Griffin told the troops at the beginning of Constellation - (I paraphrase) if you are not able to find funding for your work (within the scope of the new direction then) then you need to find yourself another line of work outside the Agency. I believe Bolden recently suggested the same."

Problem is, Griffin's direction was clear and covered the bulk of the workforce. Bolden's is clear as mud. The majority of people are left floundering about wondering if there is still a future for them and perhaps if they can hang on long enough a proper plan will materialize.

Hypocrisy, checking in. Heard I may have been needed here.

"The sad fact of the matter is if the Administration had chosen to continue Constellation and Bolden showed up in your chambers a few short years later begging for billions more, showing Constellation at least 5 years behind schedule, taxpayers are angry about paying the Russians millions, you would be ripping him a new one about how "questionable" his leadership of NASA was, even though that's EXACTLY the future he faces if we continue with this Constellation debacle."

Check.

I see I'm not really needed here after all, hypocrisy is covered.

Hypocrisy, checking out.

So, believe it or not, Hypocrisy will check-in as a living, breathing, yes-its-true - Constellation Worker! And Contractor to boot. Living around the Lake no less!

To ChrisH, I'm sorry you feel that way. Honestly. I can tell that's what you actually feel. But reading, and listening to your post, I have to echo RGO comments. To be just as honest, you exhibit some of the entitlement-attitude, and holier-than-thou qualities that are fairly common around these parts.

My job is gone, guaranteed. We've been alerted. I actually celebrated. Cx, was from the start, completely unsustainable. I have been in and around it since 2005. To see that an actual review was conducted (argue all you want with bias, a review was actually actioned, initiated, and documented its results), and that it seriously considered the effects of cost & schedule - I was beside myself. Because, as I'm sure you know, cost was "what we spend", and schedule was "a knob we turn" in Cx. Don't like 2013, make it 2015 *snap fingers*. How easy do you think the next snap was going to be?

I'll say again, I work(ed) on Cx. I am a Contractor. Do not cry for me, whine for me, or put up ugly "save our jobs" signs for me. I know we are better off with the new direction, and I stand to lose something. So there. I do agree with ChrisH, not all of us WYE are trough-hoggers.

Only the SRB/SRM guys :P (just kidding!)

No wonder Constellation was Constellation was unsustainable with contractors with an attitude. Please don't contract for any future needs.