Did NSS Try To Stiffle PeTA - or is PeTA Making Things Up?

Are ya kiddin'?!?!?!?

Unfortunately it is typical of radical fringe organizations of the right and left to think themselfs and there ideologies above the law, and above such mundane things as telling the truth or principled conduct. Peta probably lied and dosn't care. They got
you to post there video. The gunes who set up fake space organizations so they can get your email address and send out there partisan position statements to our elected representatives, under YOUR name without your knowledge and consent.

It's all the same thing. What I stand for and therefore I am special and above your petty concerns.

Protesting is disruption to get attention, to get people to think about your cause, even if you don't want to.

PETA = 1
NSS = 0

PETA scored. The more people talk about it, the more they win.
:)

/sarcasm I can't believe PETA could have lied./sarcasm I appreciate that you apologized to Gary. Would you consider apologizing to the readers for giving PETA the press coverage their actions didn't deserve? I am not connected to any of the parties involved and I want animals treated ethically, but PETA again acted irresponsibly and radically. You were used and should know better. Sorry for my sternness but, I feel that professionals like yourself shouldn't be fooled like that.

My experience with PETA is that if they say the sun rises in the east, I would want to have this statement verified before believing it.
It seems to me that their agenda is to do whatever it takes to get publicity, with no interest in whether it's legal, moral, or truthful.

Putting aside the minor inconvenience to Gen. Bolden and NSS over the PETA protest, and this was indeed very minor in comparison to those from protests of the Vietnam generation, the real issue is whether the ends justify the means on the NASA-funded study on high-intensity radiation of the monkeys to understand how Mars astronauts might be affected by radiation in space. The science argument against the NASA project is that historical records of human radiotherapy would be of far greater value than the animal model approach, and that radiation at high intensity is a poor proxy for the cumulative slow radiation that one experiences in space. The moral argument is that the NASA project is inhumane. The argument in favor of the project seems to be indeed that the perceived science ends do justify the means, however harmful to the subjects. If we were talking about potentially saving thousands of lives through medical value of such experiments, that would be different, but we are not in this case. It is true that many lives have been saved through knowledge gained from the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but hopefully no one would argue that this experience should be repeated in the name of science. What say you all to this very real issue for NASA?

It's a shame that the video cuts off just as Bolden is beginning to respond to the disruption. As a member of the audienc, attending my first NSS event, all that I could say about this demonstration is that I learned more about the General, from his extremely classy response, than I learned about PETA.

Until I read PETA's press release, that is.

As the video proves, PETA's previous press release, stating that the protestor "spoke uninterrupted by the crowd for several minutes and received a few cheers", is just plain false.

Here's how this observer scores it:

PETA: 0
General Bolden: 10

PETA wasn't the only one videorecording General Bolden's speech. So, would someone please send Keith a copy of the video that includes General Bolden's response to the demonstration, so that he can post it for everyone to see?

Very few people in this conversation know if Gary Barnhard is lying or not; yet, it is easy to pick sides as if this were a sporting event where one chooses whoever they happen to identify with. Threats of lawsuits are at this point simply a distraction to what really matters.

The fact remains that NASA is planning to blow close to $2 million on experiments that would seriously harm more than two dozen monkeys. This is both absurd and cruel.

According to countless news reports NASA would be exposing monkeys to a large dose of radiation. The experiment would then consist of locking monkeys in cages and watching to see how this exposure reeks havoc on their mental and physical well being.

Sure Bolden handled this interruption pretty smoothly but style points don't let one off the hook for animal abuse.

Ian said "very few people in this conversation know if Gary Barnhard is lying or not" and "sure Bolden handled the interruption pretty smoothly but style points don't let one off the hook".

I would have put it another way: Very few people in this conversation know whether PETA libeled Gary Barnhard.

Were you present at the event, Ian? I didn't say that General Bolden handled it "smoothly" or with "style". He handled with with content that demonstrated principles and character. He spoke of his background as a marine -- who defends the constitution and constitutional rights -- and who is proud that America is a country where people have freedom of speech. Or something like that (I didn't take notes). At any rate, General Bolden's response wasn't stylish but it definitely was classy.

Nancy,

I am not making a claim as to whether Barnhard is lying or not...I do not count myself amongst the "the very few people" who know. My point remains that I am less interested in such matters than I am with the experiment which prompted this whole incident.

I was also not attempting to put words into your mouth. Descriptors such as "style" or "smoothly" were not being attributed to you but rather were my word choices...if you prefer "classy", that's fine with me. My point is that Bolden's reaction is irrelavant to the real matter at hand which is that he (and others) will be morally culpable if this cruel experiment is actually carried out.

He could be the classiest guy in the world (the Universe?) but if he is directing funds to experiments which very well may result in animals developing cancerous tumors, losing motor control, and being confined in cages for years then I am not interested in how classy or polite he is to people who interupt his speeches.

So, Gary has not denied calling PETA. Does anyone else find it extremely suspect that he is claiming that he called the people who disrupted his event simply to give them legal advice? Just doesnt make any sense that he would go out of his way to make such a phone call. I'm calling bulls*** on Gary B.

Ian, I'm with you on this one, the main issue is substance, not style or hurt feelings or lawsuits. The original decision on the research project was likely made at a lower level in the NASA organization. But such decisions are not etched in stone and can be reviewed and revised, especially now that the General has been so rudely confronted with it. PETA needs to approach these things more maturely, e.g. through well-considered public inputs to the science review process, NSS needs to get over it, and NASA needs to do what it does best, sober reviews of the trade space also including public reactions and sensibilities.

Ian, I've seen you post both here and at spacepolitics. From my preliminary searching it looks like you've never posted to either site prior to the peta stories. I'm curious: Are you a PETA member/affiliate who's been commenting on these stories to try to garner sympathy for PETA's side?

Also, you do realize how important experiments like this are to ensuring the safety of astronauts, particularly those on future BEO missions, right? Additionally, experiments like this must go through several layers of review to ensure that the experiments are scientifically important and carried out in a responsible fashion.