Focus Charlie. Focus.
NASA chief: U.S. won’t go it alone on manned Mars mission
“U.S. astronauts won’t land on Mars by themselves but with international partners in the 2030s, NASA’s chief said Wednesday. “I have no desire to do a Mars landing on our own,” Bolden said. “The U.S. cannot always be the leader, but we can be the inspirational leader through international cooperation” in space exploration. Obama administration plans are for the $17.7 billion space agency to land an astronaut on an asteroid in 2025, then go to Mars by the middle of the 2030s.”
Keith’s note: Given these time frames – “2025, middle 2030s”, no one presently working in the White House or on the 9th floor of NASA Headquarters will be in a position to implement – or even do the initial planning for – a human mission to Mars. Indeed, for missions more than a decade or two in the future, they will have little if any impact on what is or is not done. As such, this commentary by Charlie Bolden is simply pointless – including his “desires”. Charlie Bolden needs to focus more on the near future where he can actually have some impact.
As for Bolden’s statement that “The U.S. cannot always be the leader”, gee, that sounds preemptively defeatist. Why bother trying? If Bolden is already thinking that way, then all this future stuff he pontificates about is really beyond his influence. Time for a leadership reboot.
Why should we be surprised? His main mission is to make people from other countries (won’t say which countries due to controversial issues) to feel better…
The US isn’t leading because there isn’t a mission.
This administration is talking about a glorious project that hasn’t been started, wont be started before its left office, and where no one has been appointed to do anything meaningful to the people who will come after them.
The US mission to Mars is basically a lie.
Obama wants to make people think there is progress when no such thing has happened.
“The US mission to Mars is basically a lie.”
So is SLS, so was Constellation. So was VSE. So was the Bush Sr, Moon/Mars Challenge. So was the Reagan’s Freedom Space Station. So was NIxon’s Space Shuttle. So is the “scientific” and “commercial” ISS. Frankly, so was Apollo.
Gemini may have been the only honest manned program in US space history.
Infuriating.
Then why are we spending billions on the SLS to give us the capability to launch everything required for a Mars mission on one launch?
Because several Senators said that the nation should do so and they practically dragged Bolden down to the Hill to announce it thus very much against his will. Watch the SLS rollout presser with Nelson and Hutchinson; Bolden /does not want to be there/.
Mr. Cowing, your comment is exactly right on all points. I couldn’t say it any better, so I won’t try.
Yep – second place always gets lots of kudos! Arrgh! I had real high hopes for General Bolden. He seemed genuinely motivated to lead NASA when he started out.
Keith you are right on. Time for a change.
Wow, I’m totally blindsided by Charlie’s “the U.S. cannot always be the leader” quote. Totally inexcusable.
That is the problem with NASA, We should be the leaders in space.We Gave away the Space Station to the Russians, the Moon To China, And now who are we giving Mars To?
SOmebody who can help pay for it?
In today’s dollars, NASA spent $129 billion developing and utilizing the Apollo program to take astronauts to the Moon and to place a space station (Skylab) into orbit. Then NASA wasted 30 years just going around in circles at LEO with the Shuttle/ISS program at a cost of more than $300 billion.
NASA currently has a budget that’s approximately $18 billion annually, that’s nearly $360 billion over the next 20 years: plenty of money to permanently go to the Moon and Mars– if we seriously want to do it!
Or we could just continue wasting tons of tax payer dollars going around in circles wondering why we still haven’t gone anyplace:-)
Marcel F. Williams
You can’t take the entire budget. NASA has other goals besides going to Mars.
I didn’t say to use the entire NASA budget for Mars! I said that there is plenty of money within the NASA budget over the next 20 years to go to the Moon and Mars.
Right now,only $3 billion a year out of NASA’s $17.7 billion annual budget is going towards manned beyond LEO development. Manned beyond LEO development should be NASA’s top priority– not some poorly funded marginal effort!
Marcel F. Williams
Isn’t General Bolden just really following the general theme of this Administration? Talk a lot about aspirations, hope, change and the like but don’t actually do anything concrete. “Talk optimistically, prevaracte and do nothing concrete” appears to be the current way of doing things.
With that political comment you’d think you would know how the government works. The Obama playbook? SLS and MPCV were mandated by congress with resistance from the Presidents administration, the only reason they went along is due to jobs. Charlie has his hands tied by the resultant NASA authorization act. Anytime he diverges from this, he gets scolded for disobeying the law.
Both SLS and MPCV/Orion are unsustainable and easy targets for cancellation in the near future. How can you expect anyone to be enthusiastic and promote this? Those of you who don’t agree are in denial.
It would make Charlies job easier, if conservatives would stop promoting the earth is only 5000 yrs old, tax increases are bad, global warming is a hoax or that we need to invade every country with oil in it. Ignoring that, even perhaps the message that we’re capable altering fate and leaving the planet would help. But he isn’t getting any of that from conservatives. Anti-science agenda and NASA support doesn’t mix.
NASA should be negotiating to buy Falcon Heavy flights from SpaceX, the financially sound choice. Even so called conservatives at the agency that like “free-market” alternatives dislike this.
It’s not nations who lead on frontiers that end up dictating human history, it’s the people who do. If anything, our corrupt political system on a national level is inhibiting manned space flight.
Some of you want Human spaceflight without putting in the effort. SLS and MPCV is not the answer. It’s sad Charlie says these things, but it is for a reason. There is no political support for real change on this matter.
We do need leaders to contest this status quo, but anytime someone contests existing policy, whether it’s Robert Zubrin or Neil Tyson, they are often labeled as educated elitists, out of touch with the general public and/or extreme wasters of taxpayer dollars.
Wow. The inner loony liberal talking points sure exploded into plain view in the third paragraph. Conservatives are Anti-science. That’s a new one. I wonder what percentage of conservatives actually believe in a 5000 year old earth? Maybe .005%. I guess we also stripped all the oil reserves out of Iraq, so it is now time to invade Mexico, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and Canada. The irony is that none of these nutty claims relates to space policy.
“I wonder what percentage of conservatives actually believe in a 5000 year old earth? Maybe .005%.”
Gallop polling over the last thirty years has shown a fairly consistent 45% of Americans believe that the humans were created by God in its present form less than 10,000 years ago. Another 40% believe that humans developed over millions of years from less advanced lifeforms, but in a process guided by God. (5% don’t know. Leaving about 10% of Americans who are, you know, right.)
Independent polling has produced similar results. NBC/CBS/CNN/Harris/Pew. Slight variation depending on the phrasing of the question.
(Similar polls (Harris) showed that 73% of Republicans choose the first option. But it falls rapidly the more education you have. And it’s just 5% of scientists.)
Similarly, while scientists were split 50/50 Dem/Rep in the ’70s, today only about 5% of scientists vote Republican (presumably those same 5%.)
Yes, as is evidenced by Greece, tax increases, and drastically higher government spending on welfare programs, are the path to prosperity.
Liberals are SO stupid!
It’s pretty ridiculous to even have to read such nonsense. I guess if you say a lie many times, some will believe it.
Social programs in Greece had little to do with their financial collapse. Heavy investment in high risk derivatives, including credit default swaps, decreases in tourism and shopping largely caused its downfall. Mind you this happened worldwide.
How do you propose NASA get funding, tax cuts? Printing more money?
The only economy spurred on by American tax cuts has been in China. It has been the case for a decade.
As it stands the true beneficiaries of welfare have been in the financial industry. Worlwide the US federal reserve has given more than $20 Trillion dollars in bailouts.
You’re more concerned about a 1k check to a family in poverty. Nice priorities.
Mr. Bolden is not feeling too well right now I would imagine. He is going to have to explain to Congress and the American people why MSL failed in its landing on Mars this weekend *if* it indeed fails. What’s worse, he didn’t even have any say so in how the darn thing was going to land in the first place! But if Curiosity takes a nose dive, he will be the official ‘splainer to some blowhard congress critters demanding answers. And if Curiosity works, he won’t get any of the credit! So between now and next Monday morning Mr. Bolden is experiencing the delightful effects of being in charge of an organization that is not of his making. So we may be getting some non sequiturs out of Mr. Bolden over next the few days. Just ignore them and he will get better Monday morning. Hopefully.
Quite true! Rip on the man and many of the administrators since Apollo all you want. The bottom line is, they are just puppets to the politicians who hold the strings to the money bag. Who in their own right are puppets to other people with strings to campaign finance and lobbying money bags. So if we all want to see change that might result in man actually going to Mars, then you must become one of the puppet masters to the puppet masters of the puppets. Hmph…I feel dirty just thinking about how corrupt everything is.
As I have tried to say, if we want to go to mars, have a space program or have a country. IT IS UP TO US TO CHANGE THINGS!!!!
ANY BRIGHT IDEAS OUT THERE???????
In defense of Charlie, which it seems is something not being done here, American exceptionalism comes at a stiff price. Charlie is reading the budgetary writing on the wall, and he’s got good eyesight. The American public is wholly unwilling to pay that price to go to Mars by ourselves. Let’s face it, Neil Tyson can blather all he wants about doubling the NASA budget (which might allow a U.S.-only mission to Mars), but he isn’t going to get the money for it.
America has to choose where it wants to be a leader. Where it’s important to be a leader, and where we can afford to be a leader. Or else it has to open up its pocketbooks in a major way. There is no shame in admitting what we can’t afford, and that admission is hardly “defeatist”, except in the Apollo universe, which is a universe that continues to haunt our human space flight efforts.
And yes, it makes some sense for Charlie to be talking about this now. Not because he’s going to plan a Mars mission in his tenure, but because he’s building a structure and awareness for BEO human space flight in this country that can reach out to international partners. He’s planting the seeds for such future cooperation.
“Mighty Things”?
Unaffordable American exceptionalism in space even has a name now! Constellation. We can turn it into a verb … did you want to Constellarize that plan?
But maybe you get points for being exceptionally clueless?
Looks mighty sensible to me.
With all due respect, the point is being missed.
With all due respect, no point was ever made.
You can dare mighty things when you’re backed up by engineering wisdom, national commitment, and fiscal solidity. When you don’t have those, you’re just dreaming mighty things. American exceptionalism isn’t about dreaming mighty things, and daring is very different than dreaming.
Hey, let’s commit to an American mission to Pluto. No kidding, we could do it!! Leave all of them internationals in the dust on Mars. It’s a mega-mighty thing that would prove how exceptional we are. No one would ever question our superiority.
You seem to want to continue with the big language:
Again, with All due respect, the point is this;What we do need is simple language.What we do need is “good”, “solid” performers and they can’t be onesies,they can’t cost us billions (we don’t have it), they don’t need be done and described as “daring” (makes it sound like a stunt), necessarily, they don’t need to be mighty. Good, with good return on the investment (not just for the scientist but for the people spending the money) will do just fine. In order for this to happen it takes exactly those attributes you mention specifically; reasonable engineering and reasonable engineering judgement, a solid commitment (wherever you can get it), and yes, funding to be spent in an overwhelmingly effective way. If we can do these things, regardless of target, would this not be exceptional, I mean “good”??
So, we agree in a way. I think your Pluto idea should kick start some ideas; How about a manned asteroid mission in 2025??
More excuses. Given Obama, or anyone else for that matter, hasn’t proposed an American mission to Mars, your view on what the American public is willing or not willing to do is hardly bulletproof. Glad Bolden wasn’t leading the American effort to get to the Moon. He’d still be searching for international partners to help us get there. And telling us how not to lead.
Presidents have been planning impracticable missions to mars for decades. Never has worked out.
It’s great Obama hasn’t. Getting sustainable access to space should have happened already, but now it’s the priority.
Commercial access is a necessity at this point.
Griffin set the agency back a decade or perhaps more with his idealist ways. I doubt international partners would have allowed griffin to damage NASA as badly as he did.
Mr. Bolden is making himself the worst administrator in NASA’s history. He provides no leadership, no vision, no inspiration. His mantra is “we can’t.” Remember the line from Tom Petty’s song, “The Last DJ?”, “As we celebrate
mediocrity…”
I guess you did not read the few posts above yours, explaining how Bolden is caught between Congress and his Boss (Obama). His job is to take the punches from both sides. He IS being a good Marine here!
Wow, you actually like Griffin better? At least Bolden has the guts to stand up and say something can’t be done with the budget available. No such problem Griffin! He dragged NASA down a dead end, left someone else to clean up the mess and is now screaming and pointing at the mess HE made and claiming it’s someone else’s fault.
Bolden is controlled by Congress, and they are controlled by lobbyists. The whole system is corrupt, and you’re blaming Bolden? You guys are fantastic at shooting the messenger. Smart one.
I sometimes wonder why the Space Program is such a mess. Then I log in here and read the comments.
only hope!!!!
quote from Elon
Shouldn’t government be doing projects like this?
Government isn’t that good at rapid advancement of technology. It tends to be better at funding basic research. To have things take off, you’ve got to have commercial companies do it. The government was good at getting the basics of the Internet going, but it languished. Commercial companies took a hand around 1995, and then it accelerated. We need something like that in space.
SpaceX couldn’t have gotten started without the great work of NASA, and NASA’s a key customer of ours. But for the future, it’s going to be companies like SpaceX that advance space technology and deliver the rapid innovation that’s necessary.
Elonquote 2
Tinker call musk or Camron and get your lifter in the movies!!!!!!!
The movies provide us with two space future models: “Star Trek,” where a government agency governs space, versus “Alien,” where a private space mining company makes its own rules.
We need a new archetype. I’ve talked to James Cameron about this. He’s got a script for a realistic Mars mission because there’s not been a good Mars movie. That’s another thing that bugs me: The Mars movies have been so bad. I mean, honestly! And it’s going to be tricky getting funding for
serius as a heart attack!!!!!!!!
http://www.latimes.com/news…
Dennis saw and read your link
Thanks
Yes, whenever I see the debate about NASA’s Mars plans for far off 2030-something I always come back to what Elon has been saying, optimistically, about Mars 2020’s. So certainly Bolden (and Obama?) is also hearing Elon as well. I guess Bolden cannot publicly talk about anything Elon is saying about Mars, offically, at this point. Elon is not Zurbin, who has been talking about Mars missions for decades without being able to actually do anything about it. Elon is launching rockets and should have crew capability in a few years with a fairly large rocket to boot. So I do wish someone would ask Bolden, a reporter perhaps, about SpaceX’s Mars ambitions, as a reflection perhaps on NASA’s own Mars HSF ambitions. Would he answer the question?
Sometimes I think Bolden is just buying time. Appeasing congress till certain members retire, such as KBH, and until SpaceX’s abilities become more clear (if and when that really happens). If they continue to progress at this rate – with a viable crew capsule and heavy rocket, sooner or later it will be clear that we(USA)/they(SpaceX) have the capability to pull it off, a lot sooner and for a lot less money than the 130MT SLS alternative.
Hopefully, and a lot depends on tomorrow’s CCiCap announcement, the Dragon Rider will be ready by 2015 and by that time FH should be flying too. Then they just need to find a reason to launch a crewed Dragon around the Moon (several years ahead of SLS EM-2). And that of course would be the moment everyone, everyone, the media, non-commited Congress members, the future President, our international partners, everyone would ask, why SLS?
Oh Elon is also saying he will reveal his Mars HSF plan for the 2020’s in the next few months I think. Not sure how technically specific he will be and how much he thinks it will require NASA/Gov’t funding. Could he, just by giving a speech, bring this all to a head that much sooner? Prolly not, but like I said, I’m being optimistic.
“I can’t believe this guy was a shuttle commander and Marine once.”
You can’t believe he is obeying orders and trying to complete the mission he’s been given? No matter how contradictory (Congress vs President)?
This guy has proved, over and over again, that he has no clue on how to do his job as an Administrator, To make such asinine remarks, causes one to question if he was ever an astronaut to begin with, even though he did fly on the shuttle. He is such a defeatist that its incomprehensible he’s in the position to begin with. The Deputy Administrator is basically the same.
Both are just “Talking Heads” for a “lame Duck” Administration that lacks any visionary towards the future. It is indeed time to change leadership.
Again, people failing to realize Bolden WORKS for the President! He needs to do what his boss wants, while taking hits from Congress for doing so.
These timelines are not a news story, they have been known since a bit after the 2010 US National Space Policy – which also stresses the need for international cooperation and encourages NASA to seek opportunities for such cooperation. As such, both the timelines and the international cooperation aspects of this post simply do not constitute a news story, but merely an opportunity for you to moan.
There might be some online introductory courses on journalism which could help you determine how to report events, instead of the stream of divisive, inflammatory screeds and cynical, pessimistic “comments’ which spoil the atmosphere of mankind’s boldest undertaking. Should commentary really be coming from someone trained merely as an biologist, and not as a journalist, or in policy, or government administration, or project management, or international relations, or in any of the other myriad social science disciplines which could actually offer informed insight and careful analysis into the activities of a large governmental agency?
If NASA Watch upsets you so much, why do you put yourself through the torment of reading it day after day?
Time for this man to go.
Message to President Obama: I’ve supported for years you, but when your NASA chief says “The U.S. cannot always be the leader”, I take that as your administration’s policy. A man with that opinion should not be trusted with responsibilities as precious as NASA. Fire him. Now. No mutual resignation or anything. Fire him. Or I vote for Romney. In a swing state.
[sigh] And this is why the US is so broken.
Congress made the decision…
If America cannot or will not do a manned mission to Mars within the next 7-10 years on its own, then the time has come to shut down NASA completely and apply the money to decreasing the deficit. No Manned mission to Mars= no $!